• 瀏覽: 4,975
  • 回覆: 79
  • 分享: 1
+7
引用:
原帖由 高大冰凍的世界 於 2021-1-12 03:22 PM 發表

睇嘢不可只睇表面
要睇就是其他國家的反應和態度
如.....天天把民主放在口上,但實際係唔係民主呢?
其他國家的反應和態度可以係唔理性,因為窮,買唔起西方疫苗。明冇?



引用:
原帖由 hfceddie 於 2021-1-12 03:12 PM 發表
全世界所有目光都集中在了輝瑞新冠疫苗優異的保護率上:參與臨床試驗的志願者一共報告了170例經實驗室PCR檢驗確診的Covid-19病例,疫苗組和安慰劑組分別為8和162例。但病例定義中的疑似Covid-19病例(suspected cases),就是那些有Covid-19病毒感染症狀但未經實驗室PCR確診的病人,佔比太高,這使得所謂「高保護率」有些大打折扣。根據美國食品藥品監督局(FDA)關於輝瑞 ...
https://www.bmj.com/about-bmj/editorial-staff/peter-doshi

                Peter Doshi  
                Peter Doshi is an associate editor at The BMJ and on the News & Views team. Based in Baltimore, he is also an assistant professor of pharmaceutical health services research at the University of Maryland School of Pharmacy. His research focuses on policies related to drug safety and effectiveness evaluation in the context of regulation, evidence-based medicine, and debates over access to data. Doshi also has strong interests in journalism as a vehicle for encouraging better practice and improving the research enterprise. Since 2009, Doshi has worked on a Cochrane systematic review of neuraminidase inhibitors for influenza. This review has developed innovative methods for evaluating regulatory information including clinical study reports. Doshi completed a fellowship in comparative effectiveness research at Johns Hopkins and received his Ph.D. in history, anthropology, and science, technology and society from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.



“Suspected covid-19”

All attention has focused on the dramatic efficacy results: Pfizer reported 170 PCR confirmed covid-19 cases, split 8 to 162 between vaccine and placebo groups. But these numbers were dwarfed by a category of disease called “suspected covid-19”—those with symptomatic covid-19 that were not PCR confirmed. According to FDA’s report on Pfizer’s vaccine, there were “3410 total cases of suspected, but unconfirmed covid-19 in the overall study population, 1594 occurred in the vaccine group vs. 1816 in the placebo group.”

With 20 times more suspected than confirmed cases, this category of disease cannot be ignored simply because there was no positive PCR test result. Indeed this makes it all the more urgent to understand. A rough estimate of vaccine efficacy against developing covid-19 symptoms, with or without a positive PCR test result, would be a relative risk reduction of 19% (see footnote)—far below the 50% effectiveness threshold for authorization set by regulators. Even after removing cases occurring within 7 days of vaccination (409 on Pfizer’s vaccine vs. 287 on placebo), which should include the majority of symptoms due to short-term vaccine reactogenicity, vaccine efficacy remains low: 29% (see footnote).

If many or most of these suspected cases were in people who had a false negative PCR test result, this would dramatically decrease vaccine efficacy. But considering that influenza-like illnesses have always had myriad causes—rhinoviruses, influenza viruses, other coronaviruses, adenoviruses, respiratory syncytial virus, etc.—some or many of the suspected covid-19 cases may be due to a different causative agent.

But why should etiology matter? If those experiencing “suspected covid-19” had essentially the same clinical course as confirmed covid-19, then “suspected plus confirmed covid-19” may be a more clinically meaningful endpoint than just confirmed covid-19.

=====================================================================================================

我試翻譯紅色字:如果很多甚至大部份的疑似感染個案都產生了陰性PCR 檢測結果,那麼疫苗有效率就會大大降低。

我覺得寫得出呢幾段嘢嘅人好正。佢嘅論點就係懷疑個案,就算檢測結果係陰性都要當確診,因為可能只係假陰性!  計及此,疫苗有效率就得29%!

醫學期刊副主編?  唔係呱?

[ 本帖最後由 hfceddie 於 2021-1-12 03:49 PM 編輯 ]



引用:
原帖由 hfceddie 於 2021-1-12 03:41 PM 發表
“Suspected covid-19”

All attention has focused on the dramatic efficacy results: Pfizer reported 170 PCR confirmed covid-19 cases, split 8 to 162 between vaccine and placebo groups. But these numbe ...
其實以輝瑞測試人只有43000人,但有病徵既超過3400人.
即係有超過8%測試既人有病徵..

當中所謂取樣去做PCR是否有失誤或者點去評定是否確診,好令人質疑試驗既嚴謹性...和真實有效性...



[隱藏]
引用:
原帖由 lung_block 於 2021-1-12 03:48 PM 發表

其實以輝瑞測試人只有43000人,但有病徵既超過3400人.
即係有超過8%測試既人有病徵..

當中所謂取樣去做PCR是否有失誤或者點去評定是否確診,好令人質疑試驗既嚴謹性...和真實有效性...
1)  點介定為有病徵?有喉嚨痛、咳都算定要有發燒、肺炎症狀至算?

2)  唔信檢測結果,咁成個第三期測試做嚟為乜? 同搬龍門有乜分別? 你會唔會質疑香港政府每日公佈嘅數字? 問 「PCR是否有失誤或者點去評定是否確診」?

[ 本帖最後由 hfceddie 於 2021-1-12 03:54 PM 編輯 ]



做咩啲數字日日唔同嘅?
幾時先出詳細結果及提供正式數字?



引用:
原帖由 lung_block 於 2021-1-12 02:59 PM 發表

醫學雜誌踢爆輝瑞實際有效率只係29%....

https://big5.ftchinese.com/story/001090962?topnav=china

曹辛:《英國醫學雜誌》副主編彼得•多西對輝瑞疫苗實驗方法的質疑,令人懷疑是否政治與商業考慮衝擊了科學。
更新於2021年1月11日 07:37 察哈爾學會國際輿情研究中心秘書長 曹辛 為FT中文網撰稿

本欄目由FT中文 ...
不過值得一提的是,中國的做法倒是截然相反:中國是把有感染症狀但檢查不出來的病歷作為「假陰性」,把沒有症狀的感染者作為「無症狀感染者」,一律作為病人收容入院治療或觀察的,因為這些人很可能會感染他人。當時國際上有國際組織和人士認為這種做法很過分,但今天來看,這比輝瑞和美國食品藥品監督局的做法,認真、負責得多。
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


會否有人因政治壓力,有病徵但只做"PCR"測試,中間有否更多不為人知情況,正常嚴謹既醫學和衛生專家會找出原始資料再行分析..

如果未有,會以底線思考,最壞情況去處理...



引用:
原帖由 hfceddie 於 2021-1-12 03:52 PM 發表

1)  點介定為有病徵?有喉嚨痛、咳都算定要有發燒、肺炎症狀至算?

2)  唔信檢測結果,咁成個第三期測試做嚟為乜? 同搬龍門有乜分別? 你會唔會質疑香港政府每日公佈嘅數字? 問 「PCR是否有失誤或者點去評定是否確診」?
因疫苗開發會影響數以億計人,所以專家要求原始數據,有病徵唔應該只係簡單做PCR,應該由醫生臨床檢查去斷證..

注射疫苗期間,有病徵比率太高,應該要謹慎處理,是否整個注射(如注射器具)受污染等..

如果政府每日公佈數字唔尋常,如早一日50單,突然有一日有500單,第三日又跌番落40單,當然會受質疑..



巴西講到效率咁低! 但佢最近又同中國定多1 億劑喎! 之前都是定幾佰萬劑! 真係咁都得!


[隱藏]
引用:
原帖由 lung_block 於 2021-1-12 02:59 PM 發表

醫學雜誌踢爆輝瑞實際有效率只係29%....

https://big5.ftchinese.com/story/001090962?topnav=china

曹辛:《英國醫學雜誌》副主編彼得•多西對輝瑞疫苗實驗方法的質疑,令人懷疑是否政治與商業考慮衝擊了科學。
更新於2021年1月11日 07:37 察哈爾學會國際輿情研究中心秘書長 曹辛 為FT中文網撰稿

本欄目由FT中文 ...
怪唔得咁高啦
將有病徵但沒症者踢哂走

中國負責任得多了



引用:
原帖由 qivvslss 於 2021-1-12 04:01 PM 發表
巴西講到效率咁低! 但佢最近又同中國定多1 億劑喎! 之前都是定幾佰萬劑! 真係咁都得!
俾唔起錢,搶唔到外國貨。現實係殘酷,60% 都好過冇!



引用:
原帖由 s-chris 於 2021-1-12 03:55 PM 發表
做咩啲數字日日唔同嘅?
幾時先出詳細結果及提供正式數字?
等公司自己出囉

其他都係傳 居民



引用:
原帖由 suzume 於 2021-1-12 04:06 PM 發表

怪唔得咁高啦
將有病徵但沒症者踢哂走

中國負責任得多了
有機會隻疫苗可以抑制上呼吸道病毒量(如引起既抗體集中在外呼吸道),但肺部仍被病毒攻擊..

病毒仍然有機會在咳嗽中或其他方式傳播...

或者PCR取樣方式有誤,令檢測出問題...



引用:
原帖由 hw1chan 於 2021-1-12 02:50 PM 發表
打左作用不大
作用唔大起碼副作用少用輝瑞同亞斯利康隨時觸動到DNA點知會有乜後果一陣驚動到癌變或生小朋友基因異變點算……


[ 本帖最後由 半夏善良的黑頭 於 2021-1-12 04:17 PM 編輯 ]



[隱藏]
引用:
原帖由 半夏善良的黑頭 於 2021-1-12 04:16 PM 發表

作用唔大起碼副作用少用輝瑞同亞斯利康隨時觸動到DNA點知會有乜後果一陣驚動到癌變或生小朋友基因異變點算……12000037
過左生育年紀既打,就算改左DNA,都唔會傳俾下一代..

至於年輕人,都係打番傳統滅活疫苗,以免遺害萬世...



[按此隱藏 Google 建議的相符內容]